Referees mic'd up.

[paul_e]

I bet if thats bruno Fernandes he would have just about got a yellow or no booking

Given he won a penalty by standing on Konsa's foot you're probably right.

[Somniloquism]

Although in an incident where he didn't touch a player and only showed studs as he slipped, Ratface was straight red carded by the ref and that decision fully backed up by VAR,  so using Fernandes is not making the point you think it was.

And before anyone points out it was rescinded by the FA, this discussion is solely on the refs and VAR decision.

[nick harper]

With all the confused commentary by VAR and the ref, it just demonstrated there was a lot going on with just one tackle. Scharr was pretty aggressive (he could have knocked the ball out and stayed on his feet, but I think wanted to leave a bit on Duran).

Duran was equally aggressive and there were feet going everywhere (including Duran’s groin). His foot does land on Scharr’s back but describing it as a rake is really blowing it out of proportion.

Ultimately they could have easily let it go entirely but Taylor let himself get poorly influenced by what he thought he’d seen.

[ozzjim]

The big thing here was Taylor not listening to anyone and then making the decision in almost gleeful haste. He just comes over as totally incompetent in that moment. The VAR had little room to manoeuvre despite telling him twice it was accidental.

[LeeB]

I was watching highlights our cup 1/4 final with the Stripeys a couple of days back, and had forgotten the disgraceful red card given to a very young Jack Grealish at the death.

No prizes for guessing who was the ref that day.

[Nev]

The man with one, real time view ultimately made the decision, the others, with access to replays from multiple angles were overruled/acquiesced.

So, for the umpteenth time, what is the point of VAR?

[Somniloquism]

The big thing here was Taylor not listening to anyone and then making the decision in almost gleeful haste. He just comes over as totally incompetent in that moment. The VAR had little room to manoeuvre despite telling him twice it was accidental.

It wasn't VAR who said anything was accidental, it was the fourth official and one of the *Linos  And he was listening to them when he suddenly noticed the sore balls and the other lino stated he is holding between his legs. That was when he decided it was a straight red.

*Not sure which one but from bottle boot footage, the one chatting to him seemed to state he had "seen" it so it might have been the far one.

[ozzjim]

The big thing here was Taylor not listening to anyone and then making the decision in almost gleeful haste. He just comes over as totally incompetent in that moment. The VAR had little room to manoeuvre despite telling him twice it was accidental.

It wasn't VAR who said anything was accidental, it was the fourth official and one of the *Linos  And he was listening to them when he suddenly noticed the sore balls and the other lino stated he is holding between his legs. That was when he decided it was a straight red.

*Not sure which one but from bottle boot footage, the one chatting to him seemed to state he had "seen" it so it might have been the far one.

Whoever it was talking to him, he completely ignored it. The blokes a complete dick.

[Drummond]

The big thing here was Taylor not listening to anyone and then making the decision in almost gleeful haste. He just comes over as totally incompetent in that moment. The VAR had little room to manoeuvre despite telling him twice it was accidental.

Hence Emery's comments about a rushed decision I presume.

[paul_e]

The big thing here was Taylor not listening to anyone and then making the decision in almost gleeful haste. He just comes over as totally incompetent in that moment. The VAR had little room to manoeuvre despite telling him twice it was accidental.

Hence Emery's comments about a rushed decision I presume.

Yep, this transcript really does back up the point Emery made after the game perfectly.

[LeeB]

In today's athletic:

Are Aston Villa too nice?
John-McGinn-Aston-Villa
By Jacob Tanswell
Jan 8, 2025
26


Morgan Rogers’ eyes darted towards the referee.

Aston Villa had scored what they thought was a last-gasp winning goal against Juventus in the Champions League. Pandemonium was supposed to ensue and Rogers, the scorer, was supposed to be leapt upon by team-mates, all celebrating a famous victory.



While Villa Park pierced with sound and players ran towards him, Rogers looked unsure.

He glanced straight to the closest official, referee Jesus Gil Manzano, and then to the assistant referee on the far side, concerned his goal would be ruled out.



Belatedly, Rogers turned the other way and broke out his trademark celebration (contrary to belief, he first came up with it, not Cole Palmer).



Outwardly, the hesitation appeared an admission of guilt. Those concerns were vindicated while Michele Di Gregorio, Juventus’ goalkeeper, remained fixed to the floor. He clutched his knee, lower back and then torso, with six Juventus players surrounding him and the referee.

Pau Torres was the only Villa representative on the scene and failed to convince the officials that Diego Carlos had not fouled the goalkeeper while competing for a cross.



It was the softest of nudges and did not cause Di Gregorio to completely mistime the catch. But the goal was struck off and the game finished goalless.

“The only problem was Morgan Rogers thought they might disallow it,” said former Chelsea midfielder Joe Cole, who was working the match as a pundit for TNT Sports. “He waits and gives the referee a decision.”

“If you just go wild, the crowd are bouncing and don’t even look at the referee, it makes it harder for the referee to blow. All of that plays a part. The referee has to make a decision which isn’t black or white and the amount of contact Diego Carlos is putting in.”

Villa’s patience with officials has worn thin recently, with Unai Emery — an advocate for video assistant referees (VAR) — angered. This has been a sea change in attitude.

In successive weeks away to Nottingham Forest and Newcastle United, post-match press conferences were different. Emery has been critical of penalties not being awarded and, in the case of Jhon Duran, a player who was in his view, unfairly sent off.

“The fact is we are unluckier with the refereeing this season,” he said. “It doesn’t change the reality that we must improve and work very hard to be a better team.

“VAR can be overused to break the spirit of the game but if it exists and is available, VAR neither must be underused on purpose and let big mistakes happen without using all the tools correctly.”

Villa’s polarising home and away form can be explained by a distinctive meekness on the road. In search of lowering the tempo when it suits, Villa have been susceptible to front-footed teams. A passive undercurrent has contributed to five successive league away losses for the first time since February 2017 under Steve Bruce. This is in contrast to a home record of 10 matches unbeaten.

Being deprived of conviction in both boxes has not helped, but there are more intangible factors at play. In simple terms: are Villa too nice?

Away to Nottingham Forest, Emery took aim at the VAR officials at Stockley Park. Elliot Anderson was judged to have only a “fleeting grab” of Rogers’s left arm.



The “fleeting” hold continued into the penalty area and despite Rogers going to ground, referee Samuel Barrott waved away Villa’s gentle protests.

VAR concurred. After the match, Villa director of football Damian Vidagany showed Emery replays of the incident — and in doing so, the Spaniard pivoted from his reflective, sympathetic position towards VAR to pent-up frustration.

“Now I have watched it, it’s a clear penalty,” he said. “It’s a massive mistake from the VAR.” His disbelief was not shared on the pitch at the time.

Compare this to Villa’s opponents on Boxing Day. After Duran supposedly studded Fabian Schar, Newcastle players swarmed referee Anthony Taylor and Duran. Here, Kieran Trippier, Anthony Gordon and Sandro Tonali all converge on Taylor.



In contrast, you see only captain John McGinn making a beeline for the referee when Anderson wasn’t penalised in Villa’s defeat to Forest…



Torres, meanwhile, can only shout a few brief words, before having to retreat due to Forest’s progress upfield.



The game continued after Rogers fell to the floor — unlike the episode at St James’ Park where play was immediately stopped. Regardless, when it did eventually stop, there was little commotion from Villa players.

By extension, a similar controversy involving Anderson led to Forest’s winning goal. Matty Cash was nudged off balance by Anderson, having received an admittedly risky pass from Ezri Konsa in additional time.



Cash fell to the ground and Forest stole the ball. Replays show contact was initiated before Anderson won possession, suggesting Villa had good reason to argue foul.

Only two Villa players appealed: Rogers swatted his arms in frustration while Torres stood with them outstretched. Cash remained on his haunches and Konsa keeled over, rearranging his socks. This did not look like a team which sensed injustice.



Ten days earlier, Cash was involved in another potential foul leading to an opposition goal.

Here, Brentford’s Mikkel Damsgaard scores following Cash’s defensive header. The right-back had again been knocked off balance, this time by Kevin Schade.



Cash was left on the turf and despite a desperate scramble back to his feet, Damsgaard found the net. Cash appealed for the foul and together with Youri Tielemans, marched towards referee Lewis Smith.

Strength in numbers was not forthcoming. Team-mates stood still or, in the case of Boubacar Kamara, looked towards the touchline and to no one in particular, instead throwing his hands out.



Senior Villa figures preach the importance of respect and want Villa to garner a reputation for offering empathy and understanding of the complexities of officiating. If you come from a more dubious standpoint, you could argue the above cases are all demonstrations of where Villa lack an edge.

Maybe it means being more streetwise. Knowing the old tricks, learning how to turn decisions in their favour, rather than sitting back and allowing the opposition to dictate. Villa have the seventh-best disciplinary record in the Premier League, with 42 yellow cards and two reds shown.

On average, they concede the seventh-most fouls per game (11.7) and win the second-most fouls (13), indicating they have no issue in breaking up games — Villa received 13 bookings for either time-wasting or not retreating last season.

go-deeper
GO DEEPER

Infuriating, embarrassing - and funny: What players really think of 'shithousing'

Still, swing moments in matches have often gone against them. Villa are not known for their aggression, ranking low on interceptions, pressures and tackles. This is affirmed on the road, when home teams have been able to destabilise their rhythm.

A case in point came at Stamford Bridge. Jaden Philogene dangled his leg in a 50-50 challenge with Marc Cucurella and was left in a heap.

Chelsea scored immediately after and while Philogene rolled in pain, no foul had been committed. Cucurella was simply more aggressive.



Had Philogene been more robust, Cucurella would not have won the ball as emphatically.

When Nicolas Jackson scored, Philogene was still on the ground. Note the instincts of team-mates, who do not appeal for a foul. The goal followed a pattern of opponents scoring with their first shot on target.



“We believe deeply in respect, honesty and understanding for the referees,” wrote Vidagany on his X account. “It is a hard task. From under-7s to top level. We just expect fair decisions. A crossroads comes when you behave gently and you receive some ‘hard to take’ decisions. Sometimes you face teams that have —  it’s their choice based on a plan — a different strategy. More aggressive and verbal attacks. Pressure. Should we change? No.”

Villa are intent on remaining true to their values, even if they have been tested lately. They must find a way to balance respect and not appear too nice, otherwise they remain at risk of coming up short in critical moments.

[paul_e]

That touches on 2 points I've been making for ages.

Firstly we do need to make it clear that, whilst we have respect for refs, that can't be allowed to evolve into them ignoring us and making poor decisions against us because it's easier than upsetting the moaning twat in the other dugout.

Secondly we are incredibly passive in how we defend and right now teams know that so they just go really aggressive against us as a way to shut us down. Again we need to show a bit more steel at times so teams realise we're not a soft touch.

[Nunkin1965]

It was an interesting watch just to see the total incompetent nature of the whole thing.
A complete rush by the referee and the whole thing sounds like a disorganised rabble panicking over a contentious decision.
In this part of the game Rugby puts Football to shame.

[The Edge]

It was an interesting watch just to see the total incompetent nature of the whole thing.
A complete rush by the referee and the whole thing sounds like a disorganised rabble panicking over a contentious decision.
In this part of the game Rugby puts Football to shame.

I think our referees should go to a summer camp and spend some time with Rugby referees. They can learn how to do the job properly how to conduct themselves over the  comms and most all how to apply the actual rules instead of making it up as they go along.

[eamonn]

Solid start to the new year from Tanswell. Think we can forgive the "McFarland" aberration, the kid's got enough credit in the bank.

But seriously, yes - physically away from home we are bully-able. Emi, Meatball, Durán and Rogers are the only players that impose their bodies on opponents.