FFP

[paul_e]

I think well see someone go - its all an accountancy game - so maybe selling Watkins, but bringing in Rashford (for example).  Not that in any real-terms it puts us financially better off but lets us off. 

I think Bailey will be cashed in on.  Maybe Luca Dinge.  Getting Dendonker, Olsen and Courtinhio off the books would be good due to there salaries. 

Maybe some of the youngsters?  One thing I dont get - is the value we add to players doesnt get accounted for.  i.e. our balance sheet must be stronger as (for example) Rogers has increased in value by 80m

The last bit is why I don't like ffp, not being able to recognise those value increases without selling players is a big flaw and is it another thing that encourages the farming aspect of academies.

[Dante Lavelli]

I’ve read the article a couple of times.  It’s like one of those puzzles where the more you stare at it the more you see.

I think it can summarised as follows:

In the past three years we were compliant, as proven by the absence of sanctions from the PL.
In round numbers the last three year’s losses were £0, £120m, £86m
In the same period we had £90m of expenses that can be off-set/deducted (youth, community, women’s footy)

£206m-£90m = pretty damn closer to the £105m threshold. Probably the £11m hole Percy mentions above.

The elephant in the room is the “£0 loss” year drops away in the next three year cycle. Therefore, by my dirty maths we need to break even his season which is an improvement of £86m compared to the latest set of accounts.

[kippaxvilla2]

The sale of Duran is not included in these numbers is it?  That’s about £130m with the CL money.

[Beard82]

I think well see someone go - its all an accountancy game - so maybe selling Watkins, but bringing in Rashford (for example).  Not that in any real-terms it puts us financially better off but lets us off. 

I think Bailey will be cashed in on.  Maybe Luca Dinge.  Getting Dendonker, Olsen and Courtinhio off the books would be good due to there salaries. 

Maybe some of the youngsters?  One thing I dont get - is the value we add to players doesnt get accounted for.  i.e. our balance sheet must be stronger as (for example) Rogers has increased in value by 80m

The last bit is why I don't like ffp, not being able to recognise those value increases without selling players is a big flaw and is it another thing that encourages the farming aspect of academies.

It also works in reverse - a player cant be sold at a loss.  Which means a bad injury or loss of form means they are more valuable as a ball boy then moving on.  Its works for no one.

[Beard82]

I’ve read the article a couple of times.  It’s like one of those puzzles where the more you stare at it the more you see.

I think it can summarised as follows:

In the past three years we were compliant, as proven by the absence of sanctions from the PL.
In round numbers the last three year’s losses were £0, £120m, £86m
In the same period we had £90m of expenses that can be off-set/deducted (youth, community, women’s footy)

£206m-£90m = pretty damn closer to the £105m threshold. Probably the £11m hole Percy mentions above.

The elephant in the room is the “£0 loss” year drops away in the next three year cycle. Therefore, by my dirty maths we need to break even his season which is an improvement of £86m compared to the latest set of accounts.

I would think this year, with our player trading must be net positive - plus increased revenue. 

[Dante Lavelli]

The sale of Duran is not included in these numbers is it?  That’s about £130m with the CL money.

Or Diaby.  On the flipside Onana and Maatsen erode the income, plus increased wages for Rashford and Asensio.

Regardless, unless we plan major surgery of the squad I think we could bridge the gap without selling a one of the Crown Jewels like Ramsey or Rogers. Cash seems a candidate now we have Garcia. I doubt both Buendia or Bailey will still be at the club too. Barkley too.

[Percy McCarthy]

There’s plenty of scope for PSR correction here:

Almost fully amortised:

Martinez
Cash
McGinn
Mings
Watkins
Bailey
Buendia
Olsen

Over half amortised:

Digne

Relatively big money owed:

Maatsen
Torres
Malen
Onana

Negligible fee/book value:

Garcia
Barkley
Kosta
Rogers
Iling-Junior
Barranechea

Pure profit:

Tielemans
Kamara
Bogarde
Ramsay
Kessler
Barry

Coutinho and Dendonker can go for anything that doesn’t represent a crystallised loss, unless it makes financial sense to pay them off in this year of unusually high revenue, which given there’s a three-year rolling accounting period, it probably doesn’t.

[Garyth]

With regards to wages, they may be less important for PSR but getting some off the books would be really good for the EUFA squad cost rules - if we are in Europe again next year.

[OCD]

The sale of Duran is not included in these numbers is it?  That’s about £130m with the CL money.

Nor the Diaby sale. That's best part of £150m between those 2. Something the Mail conveniently forget when they say we need to sell someone.

[OCD]

The sale of Duran is not included in these numbers is it?  That’s about £130m with the CL money.

Or Diaby.  On the flipside Onana and Maatsen erode the income, plus increased wages for Rashford and Asensio.

Regardless, unless we plan major surgery of the squad I think we could bridge the gap without selling a one of the Crown Jewels like Ramsey or Rogers. Cash seems a candidate now we have Garcia. I doubt both Buendia or Bailey will still be at the club too. Barkley too.

The likes of Onana and Maatsen will be amortized over 5 years so it won't erode it that fast.

[lovejoy]

Dante is right. The issue is we are probably on the limit for FFP. So next year we need to match the break even figure of 3 years ago as it drops out of the cycle. Getting Champions League next season will help so much more than anything we do in the cups. I can see a few big departures bug only Watkins will really shift the dial (of those possibly leaving).

[VillaTim]

i can see Watkins and Bailey going in the summer so that should be another £100m incoming

[Sexual Ealing]

Nobody is paying over £50m for either, so I doubt it'll be close to £100m. £60-£65m for the pair is the most I'd expect (and about sounds fair to me).

[DB]

i can see Watkins and Bailey going in the summer so that should be another £100m incoming

We won't need to sell those. If we do (especially Bailey) it will be for Footballing reasons. There are other options in the current squad that would go for PSR.

[SaddVillan]

One thing in these figures I can't get my head round. Player wages for the 2023/24 season of £252 million. So we have a first team squad of 25 players plus maybe 5 out on loan. 30 players total, forget youth players they get peanuts.

252 million divided by 30 is an AVERAGE wage of £8.4 million a year or just over £160k a week. Is that right??? When you hear Rogers is on £75k a week ive always assumed that's Gross or is it his wages after tax? If the latter then Jesus Christ.

If I'm right I believe wages under operating expenses would cover every employee working at the club, not just playing staff.

Hi it may well do but let's say the club have 200 employees on an average of 50k each that's still only 10 million. Perhaps double that for a few execs you still get less than 10% on non-player salaries.

I've thought the same, the only explanation I can come up with is that we've paid out a lot in bonuses based on finishing top 4.

These  numbers cone from the accounts of NSWE UK Ltd, which is the company through which Wes and Nasif own Villa. Thexaccounts state that the principal activity of the business is running a professional football club.
NSWE has no employees and the figures relate to Villa.

Players,  football management and coaching 270
Commercial, merchandising,, operations and foundation 253
Maintenance and admin 86
Parr time matchday l and other events 450

Wages and salaries  £218.6m
NI                                   £32.6m                 
Pension                           £0.8m