Jaden Philogene

[Drummond]

My guess is that we'll see him start against Palace in the League Cup, then he'll have a full game under his belt. He needs to take it but we've all seen previously the levels he can reach, and last season, albeit at a lower level, he was excellent. Give him time.

[Smithy]

He suffers by comparison to Diaby, who was a £50m France international.  That's not who he is. Yet. He might never play to the level Diaby did for us, but if he does, he will prove to have been a bargain.

The reality is, he's a talented winger, who was too good for the Championship for much of last season, and now we're discovering if he can cut it in the Premier League.  It's a big step up. He's also adapting to the tactical requirements Unai places on our wingers. It might be that it takes a few months, and then he'll flourish like Bailey did last season.  It might take longer. He might never become a regular starter in the first eleven.  But I'm certainly not writing him off after what is effectively a handful of minutes in the team so far.

He was only ever going to be a squad player this year, and if he can have a few starts in the cups or when others need a rest, and have a few impact sub appearances, then great. Hopefully he can grow into a more regular contributor over the season.

I'm confident he's going to have a few off-your-seat moments along the way.

[Dave]

He was only ever going to be a squad player this year, and if he can have a few starts in the cups or when others need a rest, and have a few impact sub appearances, then great. Hopefully he can grow into a more regular contributor over the season.

I don't really get how it's played out this way though.

Summer '23:

AVFC : "We think you're good, we want you in the squad to cover for injuries and let's see how you develop?"
JP: "Nah, you're alright. I want to be playing every week"

*JP has a really decent season, becomes one of the best players in the Championship and an England U21 regular and now has at least two Premier League teams keen to sign him as a first-team player*

Summer '24:

AVFC: "We think you're good, we want you in the squad to cover for injuries and let's see how you develop?"
JP: "Where do I sign?"

My best guess is that he wants to tick the "played in the Champions League box" as he might not get another chance and there is always an Everton or Ipswich to move to next year if it doesn't work out. But if it's not that, I don't get why he chose to come back rather than playing in the Premier League every week.

[PaulWinch again]

Yep agreed it’s very odd.

[Risso]

He can also probably see that we're going to potentially play 50+ matches this season, and the chances of Leon Bailey being fit for them all are fairly small. With McGinn out for a while now, he's a Leon tweaked hamstring away from being the only fit winger in the team for a few weeks.

[enigma]

He was only ever going to be a squad player this year, and if he can have a few starts in the cups or when others need a rest, and have a few impact sub appearances, then great. Hopefully he can grow into a more regular contributor over the season.

I don't really get how it's played out this way though.

Summer '23:

AVFC : "We think you're good, we want you in the squad to cover for injuries and let's see how you develop?"
JP: "Nah, you're alright. I want to be playing every week"

*JP has a really decent season, becomes one of the best players in the Championship and an England U21 regular and now has at least two Premier League teams keen to sign him as a first-team player*

Summer '24:

AVFC: "We think you're good, we want you in the squad to cover for injuries and let's see how you develop?"
JP: "Where do I sign?"

My best guess is that he wants to tick the "played in the Champions League box" as he might not get another chance and there is always an Everton or Ipswich to move to next year if it doesn't work out. But if it's not that, I don't get why he chose to come back rather than playing in the Premier League every week.

Wasn't it more that we needed to sell rather than he wanted to go? It's well documented that Unai said it was a mistake to sell him.

[Dave]

Wasn't it more that we needed to sell rather than he wanted to go? It's well documented that Unai said it was a mistake to sell him.

Emery said he was happy for him to stay and be part of the squad last year, but JP said that he wanted to play more regularly than he was going to here.

[Dave]

He can also probably see that we're going to potentially play 50+ matches this season, and the chances of Leon Bailey being fit for them all are fairly small. With McGinn out for a while now, he's a Leon tweaked hamstring away from being the only fit winger in the team for a few weeks.

Yup, although when Bailey went down it was Ramsey who came straight in (as I remember you predicting it would be) rather than a like-for-like winger.

It feels that at least three of Bailey, Rogers, Watkins, Buendia, Ramsey, McGinn and Duran are going to have to all be out at the same time for him to get a solid run of matches.

Then again, it being us the above scenario is probably an inevitability at some point.

[Drummond]

He can also probably see that we're going to potentially play 50+ matches this season, and the chances of Leon Bailey being fit for them all are fairly small. With McGinn out for a while now, he's a Leon tweaked hamstring away from being the only fit winger in the team for a few weeks.

Yup, although when Bailey went down it was Ramsey who came straight in (as I remember you predicting it would be) rather than a like-for-like winger.

It feels that at least three of Bailey, Rogers, Watkins, Buendia, Ramsey, McGinn and Duran are going to have to all be out at the same time for him to get a solid run of matches.

Then again, it being us the above scenario is probably an inevitability at some point.

He's in the squad, he'll get domestic cup matches and subs games with a view to getting more action as time goes on. He's at a big club, with a brilliant manager.

I also think that goals like the Rabona he got for Hull last season will definitely not be happening this. Emery likes playing the percentages.

The other thing is that perhaps he and we knew all along he'd come back, that in reality it was a glorified fancy loan and we've activated our end of the deal as we always knew we would?

[Dave]

He's in the squad, he'll get domestic cup matches and subs games with a view to getting more action as time goes on. He's at a big club, with a brilliant manager.

I get that, but that's just the same as the situation that he said he wasn't happy with in summer '23?

[Sexual Ealing]

There's probably a lot more dough in it for him this time.

[Drummond]

He's in the squad, he'll get domestic cup matches and subs games with a view to getting more action as time goes on. He's at a big club, with a brilliant manager.

I get that, but that's just the same as the situation that he said he wasn't happy with in summer '23?

Except he's had his season away, playing regular football, earned himself a good deal and payrise and is now back and further up the pecking order. (and we solved some PSR problems)

[paul_e]

He can also probably see that we're going to potentially play 50+ matches this season, and the chances of Leon Bailey being fit for them all are fairly small. With McGinn out for a while now, he's a Leon tweaked hamstring away from being the only fit winger in the team for a few weeks.

Yup, although when Bailey went down it was Ramsey who came straight in (as I remember you predicting it would be) rather than a like-for-like winger.

It feels that at least three of Bailey, Rogers, Watkins, Buendia, Ramsey, McGinn and Duran are going to have to all be out at the same time for him to get a solid run of matches.

Then again, it being us the above scenario is probably an inevitability at some point.

Philogene was already injured then though and wasn't on the bench for the Leicester game where Bailey got his knock. He did come back onto the bench for Everton but then missed Wolves so probably wasn't really ready. He didn't look particularly confident in his fitness at the weekend either so I wouldn't be suprised to see him miss the squad for Bayern. I have no idea what he did, nowhere seems to give any details, but it's had a big impact on his start to the season.

[brontebilly]

I'm so pleased he's being judged on the 43 minutes he's had on the pitch this season including 26 minutes yesterday, 1 minute against Everton and the 16 minutes he had against West Ham.

I mean that is surely plenty of time to show his worth as a player isn't it?

Yet in the same amount of minutes we saw alot more from diaby. People are just basing their opinion on what they have seen so far

Yeah, and it's worthless then isn't it? Basing your opinion on less than one half of football, played over three games is no time at all.

Of course i agree three games is not enough to judge but as of what we have seen so far its nowhere near the level we want. I mean rogers was excellent from the get go and you could see kids got something about him. Philogene hasnt shown anything yet. Just being honest.

He needs more games as you say to be fair to him.

Rogers struggled in his first few games too, wasn't he brought on and taken off at one point. He was clearly carrying a few pounds so that spot on the left wasn't his friend. He moved inside and was a different player. He was physically strong enough from the get go though, that's my concern with Philogene...he looks miles off being able to physically compete at PL level. Rogers got among the goals early on too, certainly wouldn't hurt Philogene's confidence to knock one in.

[eye digress]

He’s one of those players that makes the ball his friend when on song. But he’s not a pace man, like Diaby, more in the Bailey mould, I’d say.

He was looking good pre-season versus Bilbao, and scored a lovely goal. But he had a ‘mare 15 minutes against West Ham, including a yellow card, and then I seem to recall a ridiculous foul late on against Everton (?) that almost cost us points. Plus the injury.

Think he just needs some minutes to build confidence.