Ollie Watkins

[Dave]

As I said before, I think a striker who has scored in 2 out of 8 Prem games isn't immune to criticism.

Sure - but given he's the most in-form striker in the league at the moment, it seems like an odd time to do it.

[Risso]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/11/im-ok-with-silence-quiet-man-watkins-aiming-to-turn-up-volume

An interesting article / interview…. It’s so odd to me how these players are advised regarding ‘socials’ and their ‘profile’.  And then how that leads to fingers in the ear celebrations to ‘fickle’ fans.

I did wonder if those fingers in ears was aimed at Villa fans.

Im not sure its fair to call fans "fickle" for highlighting issues with his game.

Especially the fans who still highlight those issues while he is on one of his scoring runs.

As I said before, I think a striker who has scored in 2 out of 8 Prem games isn't immune to criticism.

Especially when they are showing a trampoline touch & missing sitters in more games than he is scoring in.

Even if they think they are immune to criticism & cant see the irony of giving a little criticism to fans who are giving a little criticism...

I wondered about that too, and he's now confirmed it. He's gone down a lot in my estimation to be honest.

[Didier Five]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/11/im-ok-with-silence-quiet-man-watkins-aiming-to-turn-up-volume

An interesting article / interview…. It’s so odd to me how these players are advised regarding ‘socials’ and their ‘profile’.  And then how that leads to fingers in the ear celebrations to ‘fickle’ fans.

I did wonder if those fingers in ears was aimed at Villa fans.

Im not sure its fair to call fans "fickle" for highlighting issues with his game.

Especially the fans who still highlight those issues while he is on one of his scoring runs.

As I said before, I think a striker who has scored in 2 out of 8 Prem games isn't immune to criticism.

Especially when they are showing a trampoline touch & missing sitters in more games than he is scoring in.

Even if they think they are immune to criticism & cant see the irony of giving a little criticism to fans who are giving a little criticism...

I wondered about that too, and he's now confirmed it. He's gone down a lot in my estimation to be honest.

I'm sure he will be gutted.

[Risso]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/11/im-ok-with-silence-quiet-man-watkins-aiming-to-turn-up-volume

An interesting article / interview…. It’s so odd to me how these players are advised regarding ‘socials’ and their ‘profile’.  And then how that leads to fingers in the ear celebrations to ‘fickle’ fans.

I did wonder if those fingers in ears was aimed at Villa fans.

Im not sure its fair to call fans "fickle" for highlighting issues with his game.

Especially the fans who still highlight those issues while he is on one of his scoring runs.

As I said before, I think a striker who has scored in 2 out of 8 Prem games isn't immune to criticism.

Especially when they are showing a trampoline touch & missing sitters in more games than he is scoring in.

Even if they think they are immune to criticism & cant see the irony of giving a little criticism to fans who are giving a little criticism...

I wondered about that too, and he's now confirmed it. He's gone down a lot in my estimation to be honest.

I'm sure he will be gutted.

I expect he will be, maybe he'll do another 'celebration'. Fingers on lips doing a shushing sound next time perhaps.

[chrisw1]

That's both McGinn and Watkins referred to our fans recently (McGin twice).  Players clearly do read and hear stuff and no doubt it impacts some players more than others.  I don't really like the inference that Villa fans are harsher than fans from some other clubs, but perhaps we are?

[Axl Rose]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/11/im-ok-with-silence-quiet-man-watkins-aiming-to-turn-up-volume

An interesting article / interview…. It’s so odd to me how these players are advised regarding ‘socials’ and their ‘profile’.  And then how that leads to fingers in the ear celebrations to ‘fickle’ fans.

I did wonder if those fingers in ears was aimed at Villa fans.

Im not sure its fair to call fans "fickle" for highlighting issues with his game.

Especially the fans who still highlight those issues while he is on one of his scoring runs.

As I said before, I think a striker who has scored in 2 out of 8 Prem games isn't immune to criticism.

Especially when they are showing a trampoline touch & missing sitters in more games than he is scoring in.

Even if they think they are immune to criticism & cant see the irony of giving a little criticism to fans who are giving a little criticism...

I wondered about that too, and he's now confirmed it. He's gone down a lot in my estimation to be honest.

I'm sure he will be gutted.

I expect he will be, maybe he'll do another 'celebration'. Fingers on lips doing a shushing sound next time perhaps.

😂

[Risso]

That's both McGinn and Watkins referred to our fans recently (McGin twice).  Players clearly do read and hear stuff and no doubt it impacts some players more than others.  I don't really like the inference that Villa fans are harsher than fans from some other clubs, but perhaps we are?

Are we heck. Have you heard the booing at Man U and Chelsea this season?

[pablo_picasso]

Yep. ignore the 21 in 39 games. Ignore the 4 goals in 8 prem games and three more games assisted in. Ignore the two penalties won, both of which he probably would have scored if not taken out. Just choose the stats that make him look worse.

I have highlighted some of his wonderful play in a previous post.

If you haven't read it then fair enough, but you did reply on the same page after I had posted it.

My overall point was my frustration with his poor play because he can be so devastating.

But there is no getting away from the fact that in 8 Prem games this season, he hasn't scored in 6 of them.

Which is a concern when you see some of his misses in those games & I feel that is fair game for comments & criticism.

If you don't, then that is your opinion & you are fully entitled to it.

But he cant call me, or fans like me, "fickle" for only loving him when he scores.

Because I have praised elements of his game when he has been off form & I have criticised elements of his game when he has been on form...

[chrisw1]

Even so, it's a pretty unusual step for players to criticise fans.  We're not the first club our players have played for.   

[Paul.S]

That's both McGinn and Watkins referred to our fans recently (McGin twice).  Players clearly do read and hear stuff and no doubt it impacts some players more than others.  I don't really like the inference that Villa fans are harsher than fans from some other clubs, but perhaps we are?

I think that players today listen too much to what’s on social media. I cannot remember hearing either McGinn or Watkins being booed at a game. Some of the criticism of them on forums is harsh and some justified but these players have been supported where it matters.
I do think that the cheering of Tielemans making a decent pass at the last European game was a bit below the belt but the criticism of him after was entirely justified.
If Watkins thinks he hasn’t been supported by the fans at games he’s massively wrong and if that gesture was aimed at fans he needs to think again. I say if because the press do like to take headline grabbing comments and blow them up.
As for our fans, they are no different to any others and I’d say for the rubbish we’ve had to put up with over the last decade or so we’ve been amongst the best.

[pablo_picasso]

As I said before, I think a striker who has scored in 2 out of 8 Prem games isn't immune to criticism.

Sure - but given he's the most in-form striker in the league at the moment, it seems like an odd time to do it.

I think that is a fairly subjective thing to say.

Some of his stats could be used to say that he is on form, others suggest he isn't.

And watching some of his touches & misses suggest he isn't. To me anyway...

But like I said just now, I praise him for the good things & I criticise him for the bad.

And I will do that with every player we have.

I think strikers are more in the firing line in the same way that Olsen is at the other end.

Because the positives & negatives are more amplified due to the way they affect games so drastically.

And again, I will add it in here cos I said it a few pages back & individual messages lose some of the context.

I like a lot of Watkins game. He works hard, is selfless & offers us a lot up top even when he isn't giving an end product.

But he frustrates me because he is "feast or famine" & when he mis-controls a simple ball or misses an easy chance, its doubly annoying for me personally because I have seen him be positive at similar opportunities in the past. Especially when it costs us points.

It wasn't so long ago that a some people were asking for Duran to take his place to take him out of the firing line. A hat-trick later & he's the toast of the town again. Not saying thats you, or having a dig at anyone.

Thats not saying I want him sacked or anything. I just don't think players that are on form are immune to criticism or that a player out of form needs to be slated.

That's both McGinn and Watkins referred to our fans recently (McGin twice).  Players clearly do read and hear stuff and no doubt it impacts some players more than others.  I don't really like the inference that Villa fans are harsher than fans from some other clubs, but perhaps we are?

We aren't.

[Dave]

As I said before, I think a striker who has scored in 2 out of 8 Prem games isn't immune to criticism.

Sure - but given he's the most in-form striker in the league at the moment, it seems like an odd time to do it.

I think that is a fairly subjective thing to say.

Some of his stats could be used to say that he is on form, others suggest he isn't.

And watching some of his touches & misses suggest he isn't. To me anyway...

Lots of stuff that would get broad agreement is subjective. "Emi Martinez is a good goalkeeper" is subjective. "Villa Park is an attractive place to watch football" is subjective. "Douglas Luiz is playing better under Emery than Gerrard" is subjective.

But y'know, they're still all true.

I'd say that if you wanted to argue that "(Watkins) is the most in-form striker in the league at the moment" doesn't belong alongside those examples above, you'd probably have to come up with a plausible suggestion of who is, if not him.

[Rigadon]

I just thought it (the finger in the ears thing) was an odd thing for him to admit to, especially the timing of it, being right after signing a new contract and getting his first international call up in ages and being back in the goals.  Maybe he said more than he would've wanted to - the quote about him "not wanting to be too controversial" would indicate that was the case.

Anyway, whatever. Keep banging the goals in and playing his 'A' game and we'll all be happy.

[PaulWinch again]

I also think a point that gets missed when people focus solely on his goal scoring is his overall impact on the team enables us to be much more effective and he contributes to goals.

His goal scoring tally is good anyway, even if he’s not the most clinical, but his all round play is crucial. Just look at how we do when he’s not playing.

[pablo_picasso]

As I said before, I think a striker who has scored in 2 out of 8 Prem games isn't immune to criticism.

Sure - but given he's the most in-form striker in the league at the moment, it seems like an odd time to do it.

I think that is a fairly subjective thing to say.

Some of his stats could be used to say that he is on form, others suggest he isn't.

And watching some of his touches & misses suggest he isn't. To me anyway...

Lots of stuff that would get broad agreement is subjective. "Emi Martinez is a good goalkeeper" is subjective. "Villa Park is an attractive place to watch football" is subjective. "Douglas Luiz is playing better under Emery than Gerrard" is subjective.

But y'know, they're still all true.

I'd say that if you wanted to argue that "(Watkins) is the most in-form striker in the league at the moment" doesn't belong alongside those examples above, you'd probably have to come up with a plausible suggestion of who is, if not him.

I wouldn't disagree with any of those three.

But I know people who would...

And I don't agree I would have to say who is more "in form" because without wanting to sound rude, I don't particularly care about other strikers & their form other than when they play us, or how their goals affect us.

I only really care about Watkins because of the obvious...

I suppose it all comes down to the terminology of "most in-form striker".

Because it suggests comparison to other players.

And again, it is subjective to who else is "in-form", as per the convo above.

And we agree on (I think it was you who mentioned it), that goals are not the only measure of a striker.

But I don't think it was me who mentioned him being "the most in-form striker".

If I did, then its a slip of the tongue & I apologise, as I was not looking to do a comparison...