VAR

[ChicagoLion]

As soon as you need to start drawing lines the goal should be given.
If they can not determine from a freeze frame someone is offside then stop fucking around wasting time and give it.
I don’t think any one expected VAR to be used in this way so why are they being allowed to do it?

[baddowvillans]

Can you tell me at which point Hojlund was offside or even as close as it was this week last week then? Watkins was still inside the 6 yard box when 50p got his head to it whilst Holjund was not even in it. There was not even any need to draw lines it was so obvious.

Spot on 👍🏻 If somebody is going to make an argument then pick an example that’s at least questionable. Watkins didn’t get out quick enough and played Højlund onside.

I don't think they are talking about offside from the corner but from the free kick - which shouldnt have been - where Casemiro challenges for the ball from an offside position.  In that case Casemiro was in line with the flight of the ball and jumped for it. 

That would only have any relevance here though if the offside was against Bailey which it wasn't.  It was on Moreno.  Harshly and questionable only if they used his elbow as a marker as he couldnt score with that (unless you are Patrixk Bamford)

[VillaTim]

The offside just isn't that bad of a call. It's questionable at what point of the body they use on Moreno but I've seen that loads of times. It just isn't one I can get worked up about or think there is a conspiracy. I do think there is maybe some bias with some decisions (I mainly think it's incompetence) but not on offsides. They're not banging out unparallel lines and parallel lines for different teams, it just isn't happening.

When you have multiple lines on a pitch, the grass patchwork and white lines, and then the drawn lines, your brain is frankly shit at deciphering it all properly, it's classic optical illusion stuff. The kids love it so I've seen a lot, lines appear wonky when they're dead straight. I also look forward to another ball that looks over the line when it's not but it looks it. The perception conversation is always fun and not exhausting.

Genuine question though - would you have got worked up
if we'd lost or drawn as a result of that being disallowed?  I agree that it seems far fetched to talk of conspiracies, but I'm not sure the technology they use is 100% reliable. 

Firstly, they can't freeze the frame at the exact moment a ball is played in or flicked on, yet go into minute detail when it comes to the position of the attackers and defenders.  That means they are working on a picture that already isn't exactly accurate. 

Then it's up to the VAR official.to choose from which body part the line is drawn and then be able to use the technology to draw a line to capture that accurately. Again, they are going into minute details with a picture that may not be completely accurate.

I've said it before on here, but I just think it could be simplified so much by just making it about the feet.  Draw a line at the defender's last foot and if any part of the attacker's foot is over that line then it's offside.

It would help if they didn't use crayons to draw the lines. Amateur.

[Demitri_C]

In my opinion if they canf make a decision within 60 seconds then goal should stand. These delays are so long and annoying also making the games have more added time that no one really wants.. 5 mins end if forst half 9 mins after 90 thats 14 extra minutes for example

[Clampy]

As soon as you need to start drawing lines the goal should be given.
If they can not determine from a freeze frame someone is offside then stop fucking around wasting time and give it.
I don’t think any one expected VAR to be used in this way so why are they being allowed to do it?

Couldn't agree more. What a fuck up that was yesterday.

[lovejoy]

They make enough bad decisions without rushing them too.

I think as a club we should (privately) ask them to talk us through the non penalty decision which is beyond belief and smacks of not wanting to undermine the new ref. If that’s the case then VAR can get in the bin, it is not a referees ego trip. Cricket don’t fall for that and nor should football.

[oldtimernow]

Appearing shirt pulling is a penalty offence this week.

Only in certain parts of the country and in certain situations…

[Goldenballs]

Appearing shirt pulling is a penalty offence this week.

Only in certain parts of the country and in certain situations…

Even after the offside has been given.

[VillaTim]

Appearing shirt pulling is a penalty offence this week.

Only in certain parts of the country and in certain situations…

Even after the offside has been given.

That seems to be another new rule they made up yesterday.

[Smithy]

The offside just isn't that bad of a call. It's questionable at what point of the body they use on Moreno but I've seen that loads of times. It just isn't one I can get worked up about or think there is a conspiracy. I do think there is maybe some bias with some decisions (I mainly think it's incompetence) but not on offsides. They're not banging out unparallel lines and parallel lines for different teams, it just isn't happening.

When you have multiple lines on a pitch, the grass patchwork and white lines, and then the drawn lines, your brain is frankly shit at deciphering it all properly, it's classic optical illusion stuff. The kids love it so I've seen a lot, lines appear wonky when they're dead straight. I also look forward to another ball that looks over the line when it's not but it looks it. The perception conversation is always fun and not exhausting.

Genuine question though - would you have got worked up
if we'd lost or drawn as a result of that being disallowed?  I agree that it seems far fetched to talk of conspiracies, but I'm not sure the technology they use is 100% reliable. 

Firstly, they can't freeze the frame at the exact moment a ball is played in or flicked on, yet go into minute detail when it comes to the position of the attackers and defenders.  That means they are working on a picture that already isn't exactly accurate. 

Then it's up to the VAR official.to choose from which body part the line is drawn and then be able to use the technology to draw a line to capture that accurately. Again, they are going into minute details with a picture that may not be completely accurate.

I've said it before on here, but I just think it could be simplified so much by just making it about the feet.  Draw a line at the defender's last foot and if any part of the attacker's foot is over that line then it's offside.

It would help if they didn't use crayons to draw the lines. Amateur.

In the Netherlands, they use quite fat lines for VAR, and if they're touching, then the player is automatically onside.  I quite like that approach, because it removes the possibility of someone being offside due to a shoelace or a nose.

[Risso]

It doesn't work

In today's example, one of the biggest problems is that you can't pinpoint the exact moment when Watkins has actually made contact with the ball.  That is actually quite important when the margins are as tight as they are, as a split second earlier or later then the picture would look different.

Yep, said it a thousand times. At the point they draw the lines, the ball is somewhere in the vicinity of Ollie's head. But how can they possibly determine  the exact moment it stopped being in contact? From the picture, it could still be on his head or a foot away, you really can't tell.

[Baldy]

VAR has become 'analysis paralysis'.

Analysis paralysis occurs when over analysis or overthinking of alternatives prevents an individual or a group from making a decision.

Offside and handball rules in particular are currently understood by no-one. Pundits, managers, rocket scientists and fans alike scratch their head whenever the subjects are raised. How can VAR adjudicate when half the time nobody knows the rules.

Football is a simple game. Why make it complicated?. We all know what a 'deliberate' handball is. It falls in the same bracket as a 'deliberate' pass back to the goalie. Change the handball rule to one line 'any deliberate attempt to handle the ball is a foul'.

As for offside, simply go by the feet and cut out all this crap about armpits and arses. 

Simplify the rules of the game and in turn, simplify VAR.

Rant over.

[Richard]

Far too sensible Baldy....which means zero chance of the incompetent authorities changing anything.

[tomd2103]

VAR has become 'analysis paralysis'.

Analysis paralysis occurs when over analysis or overthinking of alternatives prevents an individual or a group from making a decision.

Offside and handball rules in particular are currently understood by no-one. Pundits, managers, rocket scientists and fans alike scratch their head whenever the subjects are raised. How can VAR adjudicate when half the time nobody knows the rules.

Football is a simple game. Why make it complicated?. We all know what a 'deliberate' handball is. It falls in the same bracket as a 'deliberate' pass back to the goalie. Change the handball rule to one line 'any deliberate attempt to handle the ball is a foul'.

As for offside, simply go by the feet and cut out all this crap about armpits and arses. 

Simplify the rules of the game and in turn, simplify VAR.

Rant over.

Agree.  The handball one is a good case, as still frames completely take out the context of how quickly the ball is moving and how close the player is to it.  I think it should only go to VAR if it's something the match officials haven't seen.  If they're happy that they've seen it and it wasn't deliberate the just get on with the game.

[caster troy]

I've played around with the image in Photoshop and it does look to me like Moreno is very fractionally offside using thin lines. I don't agree with this approach but I can see why it was given. It's also one where I bet if VAR didn't exist it would be given offside by the linesman almost every time due to Moreno running from a very offside position before the header.

I do wonder about the 'stand behind the keeper' tactic on this one. If the play is to get Moreno active it is dangerous to do this as it will always be difficult for him to be onside in time, I guess the point is he will always be unmarked so that is the trade off?