VAR

[LeeB]

Now I appreciate that level of accuracy brings in the issue of incredibly marginal decisions.  But at least they are correct and entirely unbiased.

Although the decision lines can still be changed by the VAR officials if they decided to be biased in some way.

There's no lines with the automated tech, so they can't be adjusted manually.

Good point.  So whether right or wrong it's what we go with...a bit like a ref and linesman only more accurate for a bigger percentage of the calls.  It can't be manipulated by a biased official in other words. The only thing to worry about then is if the tech has a 'moment' like a cash machine spewing out £50 notes for no apparent reason.

The technology never fails

[pablo_picasso]

One we have semi automated offside it will sort all of this out. The fact we haven't is a joke. 

I'd be all for having GPS tags in the back of the players shirts so there's no sleeve / toe nonsense either.  But I appreciate that would give a slightly different dynamic to offside which isn't replicable down the pyramid.

GPS tags wouldn't work as the location would call someone onside when the attacker is facing forward and the defender is facing backwards.

The Semi Auto system works with camera around the stadium monitoring players on the pitch down to location and position of limbs. The ball accelerometer is the indicator of the pass (and probably suffers from the same exacto spot as choosing a frame) and then the computer works out were everyone is on the pitch and shows if someones leg is slightly ahead of the defender. Decision is still on the VAR operator for the goal but just takes out all the judgement of the lines etc.

Obviously it does use "AI" judgement so Simon won't like it.

But it would be the same for every kick, so would be the baseline for all players to go from...

[chrisw1]

One failure in 1000's of games?  I'll take that.

[Smithy]

We’ve probably benefitted from VAR more than most clubs given we catch sides offside with our line so often. So there is value to it. It’s that now the people paid to make these decisions are taking an eternity to find ways to disallow goals and not give them. That seems to be their starting point. There needs to be clock introduced and the onfield decision needs to be the one that has to be clearly and obviously wrong to overturn. Also handball needs to be intentional not incidental. We may have to adjust our high line a bit or be even more precise but the game overall benefits. Right now VAR is absolutely killing it.

There is a table going around where they've used the results if VAR overturns had been ignored.  i.e. the "on the field" decision stood as if VAR didn't exist.  We were top of the league.  And that was before we were denied a winner at Everton.  We have not "benefitted" from VAR this season at all.  If these things balance out over a season, we are due a couple of absolutely stinkers in our favour.

[LeeB]

One failure in 1000's of games?  I'll take that.

It's funny as that's the one bit of tech that's improved decisions and gets accepted without question, and has no detrimental effect on watching the games.

[chrisw1]

One failure in 1000's of games?  I'll take that.

It's funny as that's the one bit of tech that's improved decisions and gets accepted without question, and has no detrimental effect on watching the games.

I think the semi-automated offside can be in that bracket once it's adopted.  No simpletons drawing lines, just a quick answer.

[LeeB]

One failure in 1000's of games?  I'll take that.

It's funny as that's the one bit of tech that's improved decisions and gets accepted without question, and has no detrimental effect on watching the games.

I think the semi-automated offside can be in that bracket once it's adopted.  No simpletons drawing lines, just a quick answer.

I hope you're right, it's driving me nuts watching anygame that goes to VAR, they look like a bunch of chimps trying to figure out a typewriter.

[Somniloquism]

Now I appreciate that level of accuracy brings in the issue of incredibly marginal decisions.  But at least they are correct and entirely unbiased.

Although the decision lines can still be changed by the VAR officials if they decided to be biased in some way.

There's no lines with the automated tech, so they can't be adjusted manually.

From your own link.

What happens if the video match officials do not agree with the proposed kick point and/or offside line?

If the video match officials do not agree with the kick point and/or offside line proposed by the system, they can manually select the kick point and use the existing tools to draw the offside line. 

[chrisw1]

Fair enough.  I'd see that as a failsafe in case of an obvious tech error, but I get your point.

It would be interesting to see an analysis of how well it has worked in Europe this season and whether clubs are happy with it.

[KRS]

But I don't see how any of that equates to money being the reason.

The easiest example is that football is a results driven business, and a few bad decisions on the pitch can be the difference between a win, draw or loss. These bad decisions can determine where teams end up in their final league positions or through to the next round of the cup, and therefore they can have financial consequences.

[LeeB]

But I don't see how any of that equates to money being the reason.

The easiest example is that football is a results driven business, and a few bad decisions on the pitch can be the difference between a win, draw or loss. These bad decisions can determine where teams end up in their final league positions or through to the next round of the cup, and therefore they can have financial consequences.

That's the kind of thinking that has got us here. Yes bad decisions play a part, but then spending x on a load of shite players or dragging your players around the world off season can too.

[Toronto Villa]

We’ve probably benefitted from VAR more than most clubs given we catch sides offside with our line so often. So there is value to it. It’s that now the people paid to make these decisions are taking an eternity to find ways to disallow goals and not give them. That seems to be their starting point. There needs to be clock introduced and the onfield decision needs to be the one that has to be clearly and obviously wrong to overturn. Also handball needs to be intentional not incidental. We may have to adjust our high line a bit or be even more precise but the game overall benefits. Right now VAR is absolutely killing it.

There is a table going around where they've used the results if VAR overturns had been ignored.  i.e. the "on the field" decision stood as if VAR didn't exist.  We were top of the league.  And that was before we were denied a winner at Everton.  We have not "benefitted" from VAR this season at all.  If these things balance out over a season, we are due a couple of absolutely stinkers in our favour.

But doesn't that table talk about goals scored or not versus just decisions related to VAR. We have caught teams offside miles more than our competitors. We definitely benefit from the marginal calls that on field officiating might miss.

[PeterWithe]

There was something on the radio the other day that we are no1 for catching teams offside, more than double the amount of the team in third place.

[Brend'Watkins]

There was something on the radio the other day that we are no1 for catching teams offside, more than double the amount of the team in third place.

To our credit.

Offside is part of the game and the easiest for Var to sort out quickly if we keep our line.

[Mister E]

We’ve probably benefitted from VAR more than most clubs given we catch sides offside with our line so often. So there is value to it. It’s that now the people paid to make these decisions are taking an eternity to find ways to disallow goals and not give them. That seems to be their starting point. There needs to be clock introduced and the onfield decision needs to be the one that has to be clearly and obviously wrong to overturn. Also handball needs to be intentional not incidental. We may have to adjust our high line a bit or be even more precise but the game overall benefits. Right now VAR is absolutely killing it.

There is a table going around where they've used the results if VAR overturns had been ignored.  i.e. the "on the field" decision stood as if VAR didn't exist.  We were top of the league.  And that was before we were denied a winner at Everton.  We have not "benefitted" from VAR this season at all.  If these things balance out over a season, we are due a couple of absolutely stinkers in our favour.

But doesn't that table talk about goals scored or not versus just decisions related to VAR. We have caught teams offside miles more than our competitors. We definitely benefit from the marginal calls that on field officiating might miss.

Most of our offsides are delay-flagged by the linos.